Whenever I ask a priest, or let’s say a spiritual type person this question, “Have you heard of Brené Brown?” This is the usually the reply, “Brené Brown, of course! Who hasn’t?”

Well, those people do exist (although thanks to Netflix that is changing) but amongst us clergy and spiritual-but-not-religious many have. Which is not surprising. Vulnerability, courage, leading wholehearted lives – that’s the outline of the Christian sacred story and the major faith traditions follow a similar plot line: the way to “truth” is through great love and great suffering (thank you, Richard Rohr). So yes, it’s not surprising that Brown’s work resonates.

Seminary teaches us tradition, primarily. A tradition of exegeting scripture, understanding church history and maintaining the rubrics of Anglican worship. Maybe if we’re lucky we get a good field placement at a healthy church, with a healthy boss as mentor (and from the stories I’ve heard, that’s if we’re really lucky).

Rectors, priests-in-charge, senior pastor, whatever the church title, the nuts and bolts title of what we do is: Executive Director of a Non-Profit. This is not something we acknowledge when we are in seminary, but it names a major percentage of how we spend our time.

Clergy know Brown’s work because we get it, it connects with our spirituality, but it also provides us with practical tools towards being a self-differentiated leader. A leader who encourages, challenges and manages the body of Christ to work together towards a shared vision. In other words like everyone else, we have to get things done.

So here is a most valuable tool towards that end. The one starting place for every meeting, gathering, important conversation or discussion. Basically any group of people coming together for a purpose.

Read all about the research on its proven effectiveness in Dare to Lead. Or, just get to it! At the start of a meeting ask four questions:

1. What brought you here?

2. What concerns do you have?

3. What support do you need?

4. What does success look like?

Just that? Yes, just those questions! But in asking those questions here is what you get:

• You will hear their “why.” Why they are there, why they said yes. You might be surprised that some people said yes just because you asked, and some people said yes because they really care about the cause. Fun fact: people like to talk about themselves and their motivations.

• You will hear what they need. Fun fact: adults have a very hard time articulating what they need (again, see Dare to Lead). Pay attention to what they need. And, pay attention when people aren’t sure what that means.

• You will hear what they are stressed, worried, anxious, concerned about. In other words, you will hear things you don’t know. Some of it may be about stressful situations in their life, or around the structure of the meeting. Either way, you gain important insight. People value being able to share something important about who they are.

• You will hear what success looks like! This is so great for two reasons, 1) we get stuck on problems, this pushes us to articulate solutions and 2) there is more than one successful outcome. It encourages and broadens the possibilities around what success could be.

A friend of mine used these questions on a conference call with her siblings when planning the Thanksgiving gathering. Guess what? She told me it was revelatory to hear what everyone wanted, needed and expected to happen. Because, let’s face it, nothing is more stressful than getting together with the people we love.

The liturgical design of well-done worship is container building. Clergy already do this, in a slightly different way, every week. We should take the same time and intentionality when presiding at other gatherings for the good of our common life.

If you want to walk out of your next meeting feeling like you were an effective and productive pastoral leader, begin with these 4 key questions. Whatever your title is you will be fostering community, building relationships, and modeling the heart of a leader who cares about her people, their time and getting to that vision!